How many left?

[citroenxm]

Yea its all gettin a bit shite. Just collect a load of current XM or C5 and Xantia, and if each one lasts ten years you only need 10 cars or less to last a life time...

[russ92xmsed]

[casalingua]

"The thing that ruined the C6 for me, was the interior dash design was dull, and the exterior detailing was a bit clunky in places. But it was a missed opportunity."
I had a close look at the C6 when it came out and found irritating short cuts all over the exterior. The fact the bumpers didn´t fit nicely to the metal panels also struck me as poor. If you look at the way the highlights/reflections flow from the bumpers to the rest, you see none of the lines flow correctly. Other firms managed this better by having tighter tolerances and mouldings that were more carefully made. And yes, the dashboard was very ordinary though the doors were rather impressive. Normally it´s the other way around. Given the dullness of other cars available, I can see why some might still choose a C6 but the Avantime or the VelSatis made a better fist of doing the Gallic thing and were finished with more care and consistency. In some ways, the VelSatis is truer to the brief of being an individualist car than the C6. It was packaging led, and the interior design was original and elegant. The seats in particular deserve credit. I suspect however that the clearest reason none of these cars sold better was down to fashion and taste. While in many ways all the non-German cars lack the rounded completeness of the 5-series they are not so inferior as to justify the enormous magnitude of the difference in sales unless one factors in consumer prejudice. Any of the non-Germans can complete all the same tasks as the 5, A6 and E barring at-the-limit high-speed exercises on a race track. Back to "how many left": I suppose enough for determined owners to soldier on. The XM has gone past the point where it´s just a cheap, old car and now it´s a special interest classic along with the hundreds of other discontinued models that still exist in tens and few hundreds. Will the XM become an admired classic like the DS? Probably not though not because it´s a bad car but because I think more modern cars don´t really conform to people´s idea of a classic. Does anyone know in interest and ownership in "youngtimers" is steady, increasing or declining? I think that changes in society and people´s interests mean younger people don´t hanker after old cars like they did a few decades ago.

[russ92xmsed]

I do agree about the C6 and Vel Satis comparison.. The Renault was impressive. And Actually whilst at Uni we got a confession from Anthony Grade, VP of design, basically said the Vel Satis was too tall and the Avantime, which used the Espace platform, had no rear foot wells. So neither really worked. But the Renaults interiors were very good. Something Citroen should have taken note of.

I think that is possibly very true of Young timers. If you grow up in these modern euro boxes, then your not exactly going to want a true classic car. They don't exactly engage you like an older car does. They seem too sterile and almost overly clever. With youngsters living through computers and electronic equipment, they will simply want the next, newer, clever model.

However....I wouldn't say all youngsters though won't get into classic cars. Those lucky enough to have a DS for example in their family and growing up with it, could easily end up owning one later in life.

[Rommel]

Both of you are spot on in recognising the reasons behind the idea of the "classic car" becoming a dimmer flame amongst young people. They mostly seem to have one idea on their minds: upgrade. And aesthetics be damned- I believe that (conversely to what I thought would happen) the post-internet age has led to MORE homogeny of people's tastes. Bizzarely, everyone wants the same as the next person, so it seems. A BMW or an Audi. If you are a woman aged 20something to 50ish, a MINI. If you are wealthy, a Range Rover Sport or Evoque. There are so many cars to choose from and yet.....this is what I see daily, certainly here in central Scotland. Zero imagination.

I have serious doubts that any post mid-80s cars will be seen as classic at any point. I feel that the age is passing, social conditions/expectations and working lives are so different from even 20 years ago, and that the world has moved on. Progress, yes. Entirely beneficial progress for our human selves, I'm not so sure.

[casalingua]

I´d agree with that. Why has the internet encouraged conformity? Is it because we know now what everyone thinks. I grew up in the late 80s. Apart from newspapers and magazines you had no real clue what has happening beyond my peer group. If you like people were more like islands and islands give rise to eccentric life-forms. About young people and upgrading, I can point to an exception where it has become fashionable here (Denmark) for teenagers to drive ancient two-stroke scooters. But I suppose the clunkiness of an 80s car will seem unappealing compared to the anaesthetic feeling of a modern car. The proportions of the VelSatis were odd but were driven by sound-packaging. Perhaps they pushed the boat out too far. But I presume the focus groups gave them some feedback (misleading). On this basis I doubt the real utility of focus groups. The Opel Signum was also rejected for its odd proportions but I am sure a lot of interviewees said they liked it. In both cases, the critical difference between the focus group subject and the real consumer is that the interviewee is not buying the product. And they are not making their choice in among their peers. FGs have their uses when checking user-reaction to products´ usability, for example. For matters of taste, they are evidently much less reliable.

[russ92xmsed]

Focus groups always end up in tears. Nothing that has been the direct result of a focus group has ever worked! ....in my opinion!!

Going back to people being sheep. That is very true. Fads and trends dominate. Must be seen in the right clothes, right car, have the right phone. But what is clearly happening, is that buyers are given the option of the basic car. Ie DS3... Right look, on trend car. But within that you can personalise it to your hearts content. I think this is where the modern car is heading. You buy the basic on trend design with the right badge...fit in with everyone else on the road, but the detailing and interior is your personal taste and space, and your chosen design combination...however horrid it might be! It is really weird...people want it all, their own look, but still conform at the same time.
What I have noticed anyway!

[casalingua]

On paper it´s a nice idea, personalising your product. But alas most consumers aren´t designers.

[Rommel]

On paper it´s a nice idea, personalising your product. But alas most consumers aren´t designers.

Thank God.



It's lovely finding people to agree with! Russ, yes personalisation a la DS3 and Vauxhall Adam is a grower I think.
I just keep hoping that cars will at least look more interesting again one day. On that note, I do feel that despite the proliferation of pretend 4x4/unnecessarily big/unnecessarily tall/efficient and ugly vehicles, we may be past the worst and things may be looking up.

Regarding the Signum, I was, and still am, quite keen on it. Also the Vel Satis is quite interesting to me nowadays.

[russ92xmsed]

I have always liked the Vel Satis and Avantime. I love odd and quirky design.
I cant quite believe i am saying this, as i am not an outright fan of German cars... but i think BMW is getting quit adventurous with its electric i cars. The new little one is quite unusual.

You're quite right Rohan, everything just seems aggressive, over the top, ugly and lumpy. There is no subtly anymore. I think the only car I would actually like to buy at the moment and be happy with it, would be the current C5...with a V6...and hydractive!