Citroen XM Forum

Rommel wrote:

Dieselman wrote:Manuals really are better. They not only perform better, but are noticeably more refined.

Can you qualify this statement Will, I'm curious as to why this is so (in terms of refinement, the performance issue is an obvious one).

I think I can shed some light Charles. Automatic gearboxes are incredibly noisy things. You do't realise just how until you drive the same engine with a manual 'box. I drove a V6 Activa - same ES9 engine but manual gearbox - and the silence compared to my automatic V6s was deafening...

Automatic gearboxes make a kind of white noise. It has no definable character, such as a while, but it's loud. I guess it's noise set up by high pressure ATF coursing through it...

Thanks Jim for that insight, I haven't yet decided to change my name by deed poll, but there's still time!

Well I can hand on heart say, that a manual 2.1 IS faster than an auto 2.1. Just following Campbell made mine look very slow. annoyingly just when it gets up to speed, i had to slow down, because he had slowed down so i could catch him up!! ERRRR! Then you have the old dears in their Honda Jazz's doing 25 in a 30 zone , all the while i'm stuck in second. But that is just town.
Anyway. I still like my auto, i like its effortless driving style. I dont find it too noisy, there is certainly more audible noise, but then mk1's don't have the same sound deadening as mk2's.
I have driven Campbell's manual Estate, and it just is another car entirely. The power increase is quite noticeable and you can just drive it harder and not worry about your box popping. The torque is so much more on hand...not being smothered.
So yes in an ideal world I would have both....one day hopefully it might happen.


Come on then Charles....piccies!!

Rommel wrote: I haven't yet decided to change my name by deed poll, but there's still time!

Sorry Rohan, my apologies Must read threads properly...

russ92xmsed wrote: Come on then Charles....piccies!!

Charles or Rohan?

Russ, I like my autos too and nothing will persuade me away from them for the daily grind and long-distance work. I have a manual car but that's strictly for fun in the sun...

Me too I love the mark 2 diesel auto, I think it is quiet enough. Our more speedy petrol type uses a lot more of the brakes (and petrol) and it doesn't seem to arrive at work much earlier. And isn't that much quieter too. For UK traffic it might be different, for me I'm happy enough with the 'slow' Diesel. I can still use the gear shift in my CX (which I now sometimes forget...)
When travelling in the UK, I did think how fast everybody is nowadays and I can understand some more power there, would not be amiss at your endless roundabouts :@) Only thing I now miss is a V6 blue mauritius non-auto. Could be tempted

An auto gearbox loads the engine so makes it noisier all the time. Add to that the HP18 causes the engine to keep well revved, even when slowing, and you have noticeably less refinement.

It's not engine noise Will, It's gearbox noise in my experience...

But yes, an auto, particularly an old-school hydro like the HP18, will make the engine work harder and thus make it noisier/thirstier but that's not so true of an auto-adaptive like an HP20. They don't load or rev the engine so much (unless you want it to ) but the gearbox itself is still intrinsically noisy...

A 2.1TD coupled to an HP18 definitely loads the engine and makes it noisy.

A certain Ringway was pleasantly surprised how refined my mandarin car was, the other week. The Cobalt car is even better.

A couple of photos - having damaged my mini USB connector these were taken on my iPhone so not great

The outside



The inside