Citroen XM Forum

Never can please some people can you

I don't have the engine oil cooler fitted Will it's the transmission cooler that's suspect but I have just been out to check my bit of paper I put under the car and its dry.
There is mayo in the oil cap again but not as much as there has been before during shorter periods of running so I'm hoping its fine.

I have the fear because I stupidly disturbed a couple of the liners so I ordered a set of liner seals and got the wrong paper ones from the 2.7ltr engine, I then got the correct ones and fitted them, they are just a sort of alloy ring that comes in varying thicknesses so you can match the deck height but (and this may sound stupid now) I only replaced the two sets I disturbed as I was putting the engine back together at the time and, well, was cutting corners really if I'm honest, I should have done the lot but at the time i wanted to get on with it and i saw no reason to touch the other, now however, and after seeing the mayo in the cap im wondering.........
With a bit of luck after its first drive it will be fine and I can relax about it.

D

Dean wrote:Never can please some people can you

D

I see. Having bought them, you might as well have fitted the lot.

Technically, as long as they haven't been disturbed at all, the old ones should be fine.

Well, I failed in delivering the first drive video as unfortunately, my phone battery was dead and I was a little pre-occupied with things, it's been a crap day and I just wasn't in the mood.

My back box turned up today and I hurried home to fit it after work, only to find I have two female flare joints facing each other in the system, I bodged it together and went out anyway, bleeding thing. None of the exhaust joints is sealed, just bolted up dry and all the joints leak but I couldn't see the point in fitting it all correctly until I've welded a new MALE flange on the back box.

So my thoughts.........It's different and odd but first off I have to say that as you read on you must take into account the above and that there is also a significant vibration at and around neutral throttle which after thinking I'm sure is the exhaust system where it sits on two bits of squashed rubber that are held to the bolted on cross bar in the transmission tunnel, this created the same sort of vibration as very badly warped rear discs would braking hard from 90, this made the drive somewhat uncomfortable, the solution will be to remove the whole exhaust and build it from the front back carefully lining it up and sealing the joints.

The feel at low speeds is numb, the gearbox seems to want to jump about the gears a lot with each throttle movement and it's just a bit buzzy at low speeds, in comparison to the 2.0i engine, the throttle also feels heavy.
It takes a lot of throttle application to make any progress at low speed and it feels like I'm applying 30% throttle to do 20mph, the 2.0i was the opposite, just looking at the throttle made it lurch away from the line and up to 20mph like a scalded cat and it took substantial throttle movement beyond that to do anything, the V6 however, does nothing very interesting until about 1/3 throttle, this is when it wakes up and moves, no sudden snap of power, no kick-down from the box, it's just there at any engine speed and goes.
The gearbox doesn't kick down at low speeds with the engine at about 2k rpm and thought there could be an issue but getting it out on the main road and with the engine up to temp and at 40mph I mashed it properly for the first time and it made sense, it dropped a cog and took off rather nicely, sings well too and is very quiet at speed.

I've only driven 2 miles but it's clear the V6 is not happy pootling at 30mph anywhere near as much as the 2.0 setup was, I'm afraid to say the 2.0i is superior at this, at these speeds the V6 feels cumbersome, a bit noisy and ruffled but on the open road it flips, it is very much the cruiser, throttle response is smooth, strong and instant, the gearbox is silky, well geared and the whole thing is very quiet and smooth with a satisfying deep roar when planted.

All in all, i am impressed, more so than I thought I would be if I'm honest, and the engine feels stronger than the numbers would have you believe. The mayo is present still but not as heavily as it has been so my hopes are rising, the coolant system is working spot on, the engine bay seems to stay rather cool after a drive in comparison to the 2.0 engine too with no temperature spike after shutting the engine down.

There is work to be done yet, I need to know why the cooling fans don't trigger, the exhaust issues, the interior that's in bits all over the back seat, boot and floor and then the little things to get the refinement down to a T, maybe I can do something with the throttle to improve the feel or speed a bit but that's just fiddling bits really. I was planning on taking it to work tomorrow after tonight I can see I'm not at that stage just yet.

Had you ever driven a V6 Auto, if so, does yours feel similar, or is there a problem causing the dead throttle feel? Mercedes cars were always famed for a lazy trottle pedal operation, to give the cars a smoother drive. I wonder if the V6 XM was setup similarly.

Yeah, It's been a while but I had a Rover 800 with the 2.7 Honda V6 Auto for a long time, 2 V8 Rangerover's, and a V6 mondeo, also driven V6 alfa a bit a while back. It doesn't feel wrong it's just very dull feeling like you say, a lot of pedal travel for not much go, like the pedal to throttle plate ratio is really low, then the stiff action makes it feel kind of numb.
Over the weekend I may shorten the throttle cable as I have left the outer a bit long, hopefully, this will lighten the throttle a bit and go some way to improving the feel.

D

Is automatic gearbox computerised on these cars or is it old school vacuum controlled?
Does it have it's TCU?

No Misha, It's a completely mechanical gearbox, very smooth it is too.

The vibration is worse when the car is cold and is related to engine speed, the car vibrates when started and at idle when stone cold but fades as it warms, after a minute or two no vibration can be felt, I can balance a coin on the engine cover straight after starting from cold yet the open drivers door is shaking about like mad its odd.

When pulling away the vibration is strong as it is under very light throttle but as soon as you accelerate it stops and feels really smooth. The vibration does get better as the engine got warm as i say and seemed to improve after a drive. Revving the engine in neutral makes it vibrate too, as the engine speed rises the vibration is bad but if i hold the engine at a certain speed its smooth as silk.

Engine mounts all looked good, the exhaust was touching the heat shielding and the vibration was awful so I moved it and the problem went away or dramatically lessened, so I think that's where the problem lies still.

D

Aha,it's mechanical....so there is no chance of falling into limp mode.
If engine mounts are ok i would also suspect the exhaust is rubbing the floor somewhere or there are broken rubber mounts.

It was good to hear you have completed a test drive Dean and there will inevitably be a few wrinkles and squeaks and rattles to iron out! I would personally be hugely relieved that the auto gearbox works and operates smoothly after my recent experience and especially since you had no way of checking until fitted in the car!

In relation to other XM V6 autos and how they might compare, I have only driven two including my own and the second belonging to Mark and Jacqui in Scotland had quite a nice smooth box. After the rebuild my car is fairly good despite 1-2nd gear being a little clunky at times, but I am just grateful it operates at all.

Although I have never experienced a 2.0i non-turbo auto I previously owned several turbos autos, which I really enjoyed! The combination of the turbo and kickdown is very appealing and that almost gives it an edge over the V6.

If I may offer my further two-pennyworth, the V6 auto is a bit flat and sluggish pulling away and changes through the gears very quickly (into 4th usually around 45mph), but then really flies if you kick down around say 55-60mph!

With regards,

Matthew T.