Citroen XM Forum

Renault DIDN'T buy the Design Russ, Reanult just built the thing. If you look at a S1,2 qnd 3 Espace they carry a MATRA VIN not a Renault one...

The latest Espace though, IS all Renault.

They would have had to buy the rights to the design or do a deal with Matra to build it. But yeah the very first ones were essentially a Talbot.

Hi: Some interesting suggestions there. The Espace is, alas, not a saloon and comes outside the time period 1960 to 1980-something. You might say, wait, that´s a bit vague. If it was a saloon I´d have stretched the year but as it´s not, 1980-something means Dec 1980. The Espace was launched in 1984.

Not that I'm volunteering, but one of the most important saloons of that period is the BMW Neue Klasse of the 60s - the first to use the suspension set up still used to this day in BMWs, a car that rescued BMW from oblivion, and which did more to establish the sporting car credentials that BMW perfected into later cars like the 02s which launched the notion of the Ultimate Driving Machine.

The other car (although at the tail end rather than the beginning) of considerable worth is the Mercedes W201 aka the 190E. Big car comfort, refinement and ride in a small car package of the most tremendous engineering capability.

Good choices...what about the NSU RO80 .....Austin Princess

The NSU Ro80 is a good one. The Princess would be difficult.

RO 80 had everything to win, but no money to develop further, like mazda virtually fixed the Roatry engine, NSU ran out of money.. coupled with semi auto gearbox. All far too advanced for us UK people used to out dated 1940s technology in disguise.

It was a genuinely advanced car. I had a ride in one a couple of years ago. It seemed very fresh, spacious and well constructed. The designer went on to work at BMW. His name was Claus Luthe. As a subject there is plenty to discuss: design, engineering and its impact on other cars. That said, I would not fancy owning one. I respect it but don´t really have any emotional feelings for it.

4x Disc brakes, inboard at front, McPhersion strut all round, PAS as standard, 1300cc twin rotor 115bhp stock engine, .355 CD Drag co efficient, airy cabin with thin pillars...

I´ve just had a look at a photo at Wikipedia. The door frames are flush with the roof. Is that a first? The shape is very tidy. Roof gutters are one of those features that really dates a car and were very hard to handle nicely. On many cars they were quite crude folded flanges where the roof and pillars were mated, welded and crimped. Take a look at the roof of the car. It´s really modern and very carefully finished. I am impressed. If you go to the Wikipedia entry there´s a good photo of a yellow car in profile. Another impressive feature is the very smooth curve from the windescreen top to the roof panel. On every other 1960s car this was commonly a quite severe angle. Luthe was really ahead of his time.