Citroen XM Forum

russ92xmsed wrote:I think Peugeot should do something radical.

They won't. The French don't dare anymore. Very sadly. Pug (and Cit) present plenty of impressive designs in the shows, but nothing passes to production. Audi copies and passes to production some cues 6 months after, and that's the story. You actually have to be pleased that they made such a thing as the 407 Coupe. I still remember this large saloon prototype -the 9008, was it? wow!

I hope the DS line is just the beggining of a renaissance for them.

By radical...I don't necessarily mean Renault Avantime...I mean a complete new design direction. They had a strong corporate image, particularly from the 504 era. In my opinion, they need to stop with the odd cluttered designs and take reference from their history a bit more. Streamline the look over the range, little like Audi.. And bring back a bit of desirability. I can't see why, a large Peugeot like an Audi A7 or Passat CC for example can't exist.

russ92xmsed wrote: I can't see why, a large Peugeot like an Audi A7 or Passat CC for example can't exist.

Well that's exactly what I was talking about too. I was wrong re. the name, it's 908RC, not 9008:
Can you imagine seeing something similar on the road -even toned down? I can't believe this is a 2006 design. 7 years old! Instead, what do they do? The 508. Ok, the 508 serves a different purpose -it's the cash cow for the conservative average buyer, great. But what did they do with their one "big chance" to loose hard-earned money in the short term, in an effort to rebuild the "french exec" brand for the benefit of the long term? They made the C6. Very good in reality, but not half as desirable as needed. If only they had stuck to the original prototype. But for some reason they don't dare anymore. Worst is, I don't expect they'll be able to take another gamble anytime soon -they're very weak financially, received billions of help lately from the gov just to be able to keep going. Only chance I see for now is keep developing the 407 Coupe to a solid "brand" -but I wouldn't be suprised if they are forced to ditch this line. Finances dictate that they'll have to focus on city and family sizes again for about a decade, to return to health, then we talk again...That's my neutral scenario. The bad one is they'll be acquired by another firm -especially if the GM alliance doesn't work well. The good one is they'll do terrific in China/Asia and lots of $$$ will poor in to finance the firm. Or a willing and loaded investor will turn up, again from these lands. I hope things go well and they'll manage a good outcome. Things are looking up for Cit with the DS brand. Was reading a UK DS3 forum the other day -full of young, money loaded fans that hapilly throw £000s for top range exhausts etcetc because they *love* the car. Also, I don't know about the UK, but the DS5 has a very enthusiastic reception in France and again creating not just happy buyers, but *fans*. When was the last time such happened to a Cit? Hopefully that's just the beginning of another cycle of creation of much needed emotional capital for them...the one they *so* well drained with the likes of the Xsaras, C5s, etc. I'll stick to my XMs till then. I'm not too optimistic in any case, because the product is turning global. Look at the current "Safrane" Chances are large that I won't be, ever again, *that* satisfied personally from a car, as I could be from an imaginary updated XM...

I don't particularly like the 908RC. It is striking, but it isn't what I would call a pleasing design, daring yes, striking, just not right . But that's just me! I would argue too, that the styling elements of this concept are to be found on the last 308. And to me, that car looked a mess. The new 308 is better, but almost gone the other way. A little too bland. However the new version seems to be a very good car.

From what I have read of the PSA situation, the head of Renault has defected over to PSA in an attempt to turn things around. A partial sale to the Chinese dong feng company is on the cards. PSA debt and sales are improving apparently, and the tie up with Opel, or GM is only a platform sharing exercise to reduce costs for the diminishing large family car sector.

I think it's encouraging how the DS brand has taken off. Proved they were right to create a more exclusive sub brand. But what is more of a shame, is they haven't yet anyway, designed a true large citroen with hydraulic suspension. I always thought a good redesign of the C6 and a rename might have have helped it. But clearly the Ds5 was the better option. You see many around, and they do look good, but somehow that car confuses me. What is it? Grand Touring estate coupe, a hatch back, a MPV coupe....just don't know. But it is cool. And you are right, they have created cars that people desire and want rather than selling dull rubbish.
And this is what Peugeot needs to do. Stop the rubbish, get some good quality design going!

Well, let's hope the next big Cit will look similarly impressive to the Metropolis. You know what, satisfied DS5 customers will need something bigger as they grow older...I'm sure in Cit they do know that! And preparing something good!

Re. the 308, I agree, it's horrendous, mainly because it lacks the length -which the 908 has! Anyhow, taste is something *so* personally developed... What my eyes see in this black 908 is a shape so elegant, that I think only a well polished black piano would score more.

One element that I think you will agree works well on the 908 is the "broken" A-pillar. Wouldn't have ever thought of such a trick, and yet it works beautifully! Without it, the car would look like yet another "banana" design made of 3 arches -CLS, Passats, etcetc. I wonder if it's a first or if there's another car using this idea?

casalingua wrote:You get a fillet on the feature line that collides with a flat area of the wheel arch and the resultant surfaces have to be forced to merge.

After 4 pages of designery stuff my brain was hurting, so much so that after the above I took my brain out and gave it a good kicking around the back garden.It was a lot less bruised after this and instead of trying to understand statements like the above* I just gave in and looked at the pics. You see if you give me a blank piece of paper I promise that a hour later I'll give you it back . . . blank.

My interest in modern cars is absolutely not about the design of the exterior, not even about the design of the interior, but about how easy is it to mend, how much are the parts, how much does it cost to run, and how easy is it going to be to sell at a price that will make me a happy bunny.

I'll leave you designer types to rattle on . . .



*No personal insult intended, your comment was just the straw that broke the camels back amongst many design statements that meant nothing to me.

Sorry Neil for making your Brain hurt, it's a load of pretentious twaddle really, but this analysing of car design ect, was a significant part of my degree and uni course, so I'm used to prattling on about!

Going back to the 908 A pillar..... Production wise it would work, of course it would, but the glass would be expensive and difficult to realise. Double curvature glass of any extremes like that are near impossible without delicate a pillars to give the impression of it. Like the Picasso. It'll distort like mad. I know Renault did a similar thing on the 25 rear hatch and the SM too, but they were rear windows where distortion isn't an issue. There are no rules to say a car needs a rear windscreen. So you can literally have anything.
I would not be too surprised to find that that windscreen is actually plexiglass on the concept. The A pillar Is certainly a unique look, reminds me of the old American cars with those large wrap around screens and a pillars almost in reverse, but again...not a huge fan of it. But also with a conventional swooping a pillar it would look too heavy.
Curious design this one.

Eddie nuff wrote:

casalingua wrote:You get a fillet on the feature line that collides with a flat area of the wheel arch and the resultant surfaces have to be forced to merge.

After 4 pages of designery stuff my brain was hurting, so much so that after the above I took my brain out and gave it a good kicking around the back garden.It was a lot less bruised after this and instead of trying to understand statements like the above* I just gave in and looked at the pics. You see if you give me a blank piece of paper I promise that a hour later I'll give you it back . . . blank.

My interest in modern cars is absolutely not about the design of the exterior, not even about the design of the interior, but about how easy is it to mend, how much are the parts, how much does it cost to run, and how easy is it going to be to sell at a price that will make me a happy bunny.

I'll leave you designer types to rattle on . . .

Quality...

Some posts do tend to be a bit "wordy".

Wordy: that would be me. I like writing about this kind of thing. People are free to move on as soon as their eyes glaze.
The Peugeot concept shown above is bloated and it´s even painted black which reduces the impression of bloat. Painted in a pale colour it would resemble a whale.

Eddie nuff wrote:

casalingua wrote:You get a fillet on the feature line that collides with a flat area of the wheel arch and the resultant surfaces have to be forced to merge.

After 4 pages of designery stuff my brain was hurting, so much so that after the above I took my brain out and gave it a good kicking around the back garden.It was a lot less bruised after this and instead of trying to understand statements like the above* I just gave in and looked at the pics. You see if you give me a blank piece of paper I promise that a hour later I'll give you it back . . . blank.

My interest in modern cars is absolutely not about the design of the exterior, not even about the design of the interior, but about how easy is it to mend, how much are the parts, how much does it cost to run, and how easy is it going to be to sell at a price that will make me a happy bunny.

I'll leave you designer types to rattle on . . .




*No personal insult intended, your comment was just the straw that broke the camels back amongst many design statements that meant nothing to me.

True, when you try to put it in writting, it's so tricky to word -I think the person writting the quoted sentence said so too! 1 image is worth a 1000 words, says chinese popular wisdom, they're spot on!

The rules of aesthetics is something that has always drawn my attention -talking of any type of object, not just cars. With the XM, I have a problem, because lately I find my brain is getting stuck with its shape, getting really fixated on it, I'm worried, honestly. It's like, every morning I *need* to see this wedge. I used to like a variety of cars+shapes!