Citroen XM Forum

Hi all,

I was sent the following e-mail from the CCC Membership secretary:

Hi Paul / Steph,

Firstly, Steph, thanks for your time on the phone earlier and for the
email address - I'm the chap who phoned to ask about XMs! I've a
deadline of this weekend to write this feature for The Telegraph, so I'd be grateful if you could forward this email on to the relevant XM
registrar (or similar) post-haste!

I just have a few questions concerning XM ownership at the moment and
the potential for a rise in XM values. Now that CX prices have risen,
I'm guessing the XM's values look like they might start to swell to fill the gap. Is that correct? If not, I'd be interested to hear your take on what values are doing these days.

I was also wondering whether there are any particular models of XM that
are more highly prized than the rest - V6 Exclusives, I'm guessing, are
sought after, but are there others that seem to be more in demand?

I'm sure you get sick and tired of people asking about XM reliability,
and I know they can be dependable cars, but is there anything in
particular that people should be looking out for?

I'd also like to ask whether you think the XM's reputation for
reliability - unfounded or otherwise - has led to its rarity and,
consequently, the rise in values?

And finally, in your own words, what is it about XMs, do you think, that people are finding appealing these days?

I invite your own comments on the questions that they are asking, and I'll collate something together and send it in to them.

Thanks in advance.

Robert

Hi Robert

I obviously consider the 2.1 manual estate to be the best version, but that is purely from a practical point of view. I ran them for many years as my work vehicle, I could get lots of TVs in to them and the ride comfort and economy set them apart from anything else available at the time. I still have one which I occaisionally get to drive as it has been 'adopted' by my son, the mechanical refinement is still better than the C5.

I consider the XM to be the second best car I have ever owned, the best was the CX Safari.

Peter

Can't answer and no interest in the price rise point, nor indeed on the things to look out for.

But speaking as a new admirer / buyer - what did I find appealing?

- exceptional comfort and ride quality.
- with hydractive, very good handling for a car of this size
- all round practicality.
- a super design too.

I am bored stiff with cars that shake you to death on British roads. I don't want a car that is set up for the Nurburgring, I want one that will transport me in refinement and comfort for long and short journeys, that can nevertheless show her heels and corner with the best of them while being an acceptably modern car.

My views are these,

When it was new, it seemed to be a car that pushed boundaries, in both ride, comfort, space, style and general refinement. They feel like a solid heavy car. Which they are!! Citroen I think did achieve the best of both worlds, a comfy soft limo, with the ability to show a lotus Elan a hard time.
The styling was crisp, fresh and modern, different enough from its contemporaries to stand out, but not wacky to alienate. It innovated like a good Citroen should. It also introduced an automotive design practice in 1989, that is well used today in 2013, and that is to introduce a retrospective design based on the SM. however, the XM design managed to be its own car, even though it references much of the SM shape and detailing.
Computer controlled hydro pneumatic suspension, Double curvature glass ....was back then unheard of and extremely difficult to do. The XM was a thoroughly modern car, and still feels like a modern car.
Infact in this country at least, this suspension is almost mandatory or more relevant than ever... if you want a car that is comfortable and can cope with our decaying and quite atrocious roads. I'll also add, that people with bone diseases such as bad backs, skeletal problems ect, actually would benefit from this type of suspension. It kept my Mum driving for longer in comfort, which was very important and I know of others who chose XM's primarily for this reason.

I have heard quite few comments from previous owners all saying how well built they are. Even now at 21 years old, mine doesn't really rattle and squeak as you would expect it too.

The reliability issues has been well known, and blown out of proportion by the motoring press. But I think that's to our advantage, as it has kept them in the hands of enthusiasts. Unfortunately there was a period when they got so cheap, people were buying them and running them till something broke. And they were probably scrapped.
What I have learnt is that now most of the problems are well known and can be fixed. Again I have heard several stories of people having XM's and being as reliable as anything German.

As for prices going up, I wouldn't expect them to suddenly shoot for the sky, but it would be nice to see some value in them. They do deserve it. Rarity will probably be the cause rather than demand. I think we are at a point of get one now and use it and keep it, or it will become more difficult to find a good one, regardless of any inflated prices.

Anyway, those are my random verbal diarrhoea thoughts on the subject. sorry if they sound disjointed!

Shit Russ, you've more or less covered all of the ground I was going to mention!

I too am disinterested in the "appreciating classic" angle. Doubtless it will have to be covered nonetheless.

The Lotus Elan slalom comparison should definitely be mentioned. when juxtaposed against the superlative ride comfort offered it provides an excellent and eye-opening demonstration of the innovation the XM offered. When one looks back to the comments from road tests of the DS some 40 or more years ago, it is easy to see how the XM truly represented a then-current encapsulation of the same principles- comfort with surprisingly adept handling. Driver involvement came through serenity, not through quickening his pulse rate, an altogether more cerebral and meditative approach to motoring than the one favoured by the press. Yet it is obvious that the XM could mix it with the rest and play the handling game if need be.

I would also agree on the aspect of build quality- the zeitgeist around older Cits is that they are built like crisp packets and as a first-time owner I was very surprised by how solid and rattle-free my 18 year old example appears to be. A reputation undeserved.

Perhaps the XM could be seen to represent both the beginning of something (as referenced by Russ in design terms, the curved glass, not to mention Hydractive suspension when it appeared), and yet also an end- the ability of the highly distinctive, different and imaginitive to survive in a marketplace about to become more conformist in its choices.

Finally, something must be made of the fact that although the car had early problems, in the long run it was far more reliable than its undeserved reputation. I believe it was killed by the press, for in its genesis, nay, its very DNA, lay an irrevocable and damning fault- it was not German, nor rear wheel drive.

sorry!!!!

Very valid points too Rohan, especially your last point.

There was a social shift in the late 80's.. image and an obsession with having the right products suddenly became important. I suppose materialism became everything for those who could afford it. And in the case of cars, BMW and Merc were king.

Getting a bit in depth there!!

Hi Paul / Steph,

Firstly, Steph, thanks for your time on the phone earlier and for the
email address - I'm the chap who phoned to ask about XMs! I've a
deadline of this weekend to write this feature for The Telegraph, so I'd be grateful if you could forward this email on to the relevant XM
registrar (or similar) post-haste!

I just have a few questions concerning XM ownership at the moment and
the potential for a rise in XM values. Now that CX prices have risen,
I'm guessing the XM's values look like they might start to swell to fill the gap. Is that correct? If not, I'd be interested to hear your take on what values are doing these days.

I was also wondering whether there are any particular models of XM that
are more highly prized than the rest - V6 Exclusives, I'm guessing, are
sought after, but are there others that seem to be more in demand?

I'm sure you get sick and tired of people asking about XM reliability,
and I know they can be dependable cars, but is there anything in
particular that people should be looking out for?

I'd also like to ask whether you think the XM's reputation for
reliability - unfounded or otherwise - has led to its rarity and,
consequently, the rise in values?

And finally, in your own words, what is it about XMs, do you think, that people are finding appealing these days?

Values are rising for the right car. Anything diesel now sells at a reasonable price with manuals being the most sought after, up about 100% on 2 years ago, Nice petrol turbo's sell on, others stick at any price.
Series 1 cars are more sought after due to being the original design both inside and out.
Early 12valve V6 can stick around, but all versions of V6-24valve cars seem to have gained a strong following.

Series 2 cars aren't as idiosyncratic to look at inside, but are more refined, the V6 especially so. Exclusive and estate models are sought after, though velour seats are the most comfortable, especially early series 1 long pile velour.

The interior is very spacious, the sitting position is spot on, the seats are like armchairs and the ride quality is fantastic (better than a CX), especially in Hydractive cars (which all UK cars are). The Xm was the first production car in the World with active suspension, so handles far better than it's size or soft ride would suggest. It is a real B road stormer.
Due to having Hydractive2 and passive rear steering, series 2 cars ride and handle even better than series 1 cars.

As far as reliability goes, once the 20 years of neglect has been sorted out they are no worse than any other car and better than some new ones.

Due to age and neglect, rust is now taking hold on the sills and underbody, check the rear chassis rails, the sills and jacking points, trailing edge of the front wheel housing, the rear hydraulic pipes and the front suspension strut tops.
The body panels are galvanised so don't rust much, unless damaged.

I predict the XM will have a strong following in years to come as it is a better all round car than a CX and is more reliable and rusts a lot less.

Sunroofs tend to leak, jam or rattle.

Most faults tend to be normal electrical or mechanical ones. watch for head gaskets blowing on all early cars, simply due to age.

I was also wondering whether there are any particular models of XM that
are more highly prized than the rest - V6 Exclusives, I'm guessing, are
sought after, but are there others that seem to be more in demand?

Answer: the 2 litre models make up in economy what they lack in outright acceleration.

I'm sure you get sick and tired of people asking about XM reliability,
and I know they can be dependable cars, but is there anything in
particular that people should be looking out for?

Electric window motors seem to die more frequently than you´d think , the park-brake adjustment needs to be done annually. The bushings should be looked at around 150,000 miles. Mine were clonky and after renewal the ride and NVH improved markedly. Change or renew the spheres every two years not three. Long term threats are the supply of spares for the steering system. The pinion valve is not in production and donor cars are few. But renewal by Pleiades can solve that problem. The Bosch ABS brake sensors are out of production. However, you can get replacements made if you are determined. Rust on the underbody eventually might need attention. Lastly, as with any modern car, the engine management module may be a serious problem if it dies and needs replacing.

I'd also like to ask whether you think the XM's reputation for
reliability - unfounded or otherwise - has led to its rarity and,
consequently, the rise in values?
The reliability problem was overstated by the press. I´ve had two XMs in eleven years and only once was I left stranded. There have been no serious failures that weren´t part of normal wear and tear. About the only annoying fault is the LCD display on the dash which eventually will fail but it doesn´t affect the car´s performance. The car as described in the press is not the one I would recognise from my experience.

I think XMs that are in excellent condition are highly sought after rather than the high performance top spec cars.

The neglected cars are sadly unreliable, and there are many of those about as the Xms come out of the banger doldrums and being a bit more sought after as a classic car.

When is this article appearing?