If you didn't have a Citroen?

[citroenxm]

My other favorite is the E28 model 5 series.. be it a 520, 525, 525eta auto or a 528 i love the E28 model. I can very happily leave the 530 or M5 they are too drug dealer type.. but the others are just brilliant.. again not the fact its a Bmw its the package that happens to be made by them...

[casalingua]

Now that you've named the BMW it seems as my original expectation looks less incorrect, but only slightly less so.
Much as I respect the success of the 1988 5 series, I couldn't imagine ever liking driving or owning one. I like Ercole Spada's exterior styling of the '88 Five but the grim interior is cheerless, much like any base model Senator or Granada from the middle 80s. To be really cynical, if Ford was once guilty of offering mediocrity plus 10%, then the BMW was mostly mediocrity plus 17%. The brilliant 5s, the halo cars, cost way more than the base models that stole sales from Citroen, Renault, Ford et al and people thought they got a bit of M Division magic when all they really shared was the tight packaging and costly hard trim. It was a bait and switch job: show the public 535is and sell them 518s instead. Put another way, if the mainstream makers had grasped the importance of rattle free trim they'd be selling alot more cars than they do now.

[citroenxm]

Remember 88 was the END of E28 production ... E28 was born in 82 or 83 sometime... but like i said.. if ford had made the exact E28 then it would of been them.. I love the package...

[casalingua]

Ah, right. The E28 is a nicer car than the one I've been thinking of. It looks more solidly made than the successor. I saw one recently and was struck by the tininess of it. The boot and rear passenger space are modest and the driver is not spoiled for space either. I'll take a Peugeot 604 over the E28 but I'll accept the Munchener's superior assembly quality. When I was two decades younger a Five series seemed very special and those ones still are. The ones that came after are not much more than ordinary. They have no aura.

[russ92xmsed]

Interesting what you mentioned about BMW interiors of that era. I particularly like the 1987 7series. But the interior is very spartan and not what you would expect from a range topper. The pug 605 is similar, just not quite special enough, although it is a pleasing design.
The Renault 25 interior, has a wacky interesting design which looks, in my opinion, more special even though in truth it is made from egg boxes!!

[casalingua]

The 605 is very ordinary. Every time I look inside one I see nothing that has any hint of delight about it. It is an interior for a class below, barring the creditable rear legroom which the Scorpio and XM have too and more besides. The 607 is vastly better and very appealing. I'd quite enjoy one of those and I really must do a test drive some time. Turning to the '87 Seven, I think that one works despite the severity. It has scale and the wood panels to lift it. Having tried a late model R25 I'd have to gently disagree about the egg box quality. Yes, there's a lot of hard plastic but it's firmly assembled and very, very comfortable to sit in. As you drive you don't notice the R5 plastic but the smooth ride, quiet interior atmosphere and nice features. The Safrane threw all of that away and is just a Laguna plus five percent. Little wonder they are already rare. It was a real knee-jerk design, defined more by what it should not be than by anything positive.

[russ92xmsed]

I was speculating a little at the 'egg box quality' of the 25! Compare it with a beemer, it is a little more fragile. Renaults of that age were always very comfy. The seats had a perfect blend of support and squashy comfort. In fact a very good friend of mine refers to them as marshmallows! My families old 1988 21GTS was very well built for it's era. Had that for roughly 15 years without much serious trouble. I can see a resemblance of the 25 interior in the Safrane. It is blander, but for some reason, I really like them....mainly the first ones with the really bland face!

[casalingua]

http://hooniverse.com/2012/03/09/hooniv ... -0-rt-v6i/
Try this link for a fairly amusing resume of the Safrane's qualities and appearance.
I'm in the odd position of owning a distinctive and interesting car and hankerinf after some very bland fare such as the Peugeot 604 and early 80s Ford Granada (a bit like being wedded to a Hollywood starlet but fancying the model in an M&S
ladies' cardigan catalogue). That said even I can't find a place in my heart for the Safrane. It's reminiscent of the Talbot Tagora (and the later Solara) which were just utterly average cars. The truth is that a company can't afford to launch a car designed around box checking. That's the GM way and it only ever leads to cars that fail to get to the top spot on anyone's wish list.

[russ92xmsed]

Thanks for the link Casalingua. I kind of agree with it, but I still have a hankering for one. It's not an outright favourite, I own that, but I for some reason really like them. And the 'V6 lump' that ruined Delorean, is found in quite a few cars. Certain French spaceship!.......

I quite like the Tagora too. my car tastes are weird!

[citroenxm]

TAGORA!!!!!! TAGORA!!!!! I heard that Russ!!

I LOVE them, Im not afraid to say it, I LOVE all the old Talbot, the Solara too!

Solara was a well stuffed car for toys, specially the SX and Raipier/Minx models!

The Tagora had tripple carbs on the PRV, giving a lusty 175bhp or so, matching the XM's 12v out put. (Or was it 165bhp) I know it was good for the time though..