XM antipathy

[andmcit]

No! Just read what happened so won't be watching. Cx handbrakes aren't the best
feature of the car but in this case I'm betting it was 'helped' to it's destruction.

More idiots and juvenile laddish behaviour!

Andrew

[DoubleChevron]

Oh man .... You guys are hilarious..... There is no comparing CX's and XM's. Ones a proper car and the other is a rebadged Poogoe Your really trying to compare a car designed in the late 60s -> early 70's with one designed in the 90's ???

As for the top gear episode.... Well at least one CX gets to entertain the world audiance of millions before it gets crushed. It will most likely be a very rusty petrol automatic that is basically worthless over there anyway. At least she gets to go out with a bang And hey, no doubt Clarkson will say how much he likes proper Citroens either way

I'm trying to get my wife to massively upgrade the XM to a nice 1976 CX 2.2 Diesel Safari.... She doesn't want a bar of it though

seeya,
Shane L.

[Citroenesque]

Shane, BTW, the XM was designed in the 80's. But I get where you're coming from.

This thread has developed into something IMO quite interesting...

The S2 XM bears more of the Peugeot influence sadly, but don't forget the XM was designed, consciously to retain Citroen's uniqueness (hence Hydractive 2) and its design came from Bertone - where the BX started life too. As I understand it, The DS was designed at Bertone where a certain Robert Opron was employed. Opron went to Citroen as their in-house designer and the SM, GS and CX were designed there. The GS in particular is recognised as the car too far for Citroen and it nearly bankrupted them. The CX sales were slow too and the majority of CX sales were made under the PSA umbrella. PSA understandably went back to Bertone where the BX and the XM were designed. This association, linked to the DS makes the BX and XM part of the family tree, so to speak. Bertone actually continued to design Citroens: the ZX and the Xantia of course, but it is undeniable that the Peugeot influence by the early 90's was dominant and Citroen's identity was threatened. But I honestly believe the XM shares its roots with true Citroens and I don't accept that it is a glorified Pug. Perhaps if Opron had designed what was to become the BX and then the XM it would have been better? But at least some semblance of its heritage is there.

[citroenmad]

Oops sorry, you've started me off and I really don't want to get into a "this versus that" chat!
I just can't stand by and hear a Cx estate described as pokey inside though...

Let's see what Clarkson makes of his with it's modern Condo attachment shortly on TG!

Andrew

Well im sure i didnt use the word 'pokey'

They are huge inside and obviously the rear legroom is excellent, the normal saloon is hardly pokey.

Going by observations i did think the boot in the Safari was not as deep as the Xm estates, the floor looks higher, or maybe its just the windows which are larger and lower.

Either way, very very few modern cars can offer the legroom and bootspace of either the CX Safari or Xm estate. Certainly the new C5 Tourer doesnt, is very 'pokey' in comparison.

[messerschmitt owner]

Let's get it right - the BX is an Anadol/Reliant design, briefly used by Volvo for a concept car and eventually being sold to Citroen. It is as Citroen as the MGF is a Rover (See the Honda Beat history)

[messerschmitt owner]

Oh, and I love BXs - they are proper Citroens but they have a convoluted history before being bought by Citroen off the shelf and Citroenified!

[andmcit]

Just to be a bit specific about the estates for Chris;

The rear side windows on the Cx Safari are a lot larger which does give the boot a shallower
appearance inside. Whilst this is great for a light airy feel and great visibility when driving though
it also means there's no parcel shelf covering boot contents so better visibility for the scumbags...

Hiding boot contents is Something the Xm actually does well.

The Safari (x2 rows of seats compared to the Familiale x3 rows) has a substantial bracing plate
to protect tge front seats from insecure loading yet I'd designed in such a way to allow a superb
payload length.

The longest wheelbase around is absolutely superb for towing and the ride is something to
experience! Not half bad for handling and a bit of a sportscar considering it's almost 17 foot
long!!

Andrew

[Citroenesque]

Let's get it right - the BX is an Anadol/Reliant design, briefly used by Volvo for a concept car and eventually being sold to Citroen. It is as Citroen as the MGF is a Rover (See the Honda Beat history)

I agree but it doesn't change the fact it was a Bertone design adapted to fit in with a concept Citroen were already working on as the GSA successor (There's cost-cutting of course, but given the expense of in-house develpoments PSA could be forgiven for considering a more off-the-shelf solution). The designer of the BX was of course, Marcello Gandini...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlmbUe_zeZ8


Unashamedly paraphrasing Wikipedia!

FW11



In 1977 Gandini designed the FW 11 for Anadol and Reliant, the latter naming it as the Scimitar SE 7. Four prototypes of this car were produced, two of which were sent to England with the Reliant badge, and two other examples, one of them white and the other one blue, were sent to Turkey with the Anadol badge. The car, which had a modern design and "luxuries" for that period's European cars such as electric windows, was deemed too expensive to produce profitably by Anadol and the project was shelved.

Following Anadol's decision not to build the FW 11, Reliant exhibited the Scimitar SE 7 at its stand as a prototype during the Birmingham Motor Show.

see http://www.sporting-reliants.com/FW11.htm







The FW 11 design was later purchased by Citroën, and with significant Citroen (OK, PSA)-directed changes (e.g. a steel unibody with steel and plastic panels rather than fiberglass and hugely important: the suspension). The Citroën BX was adopted, genetically modified and born...


Another Bertone creation of note:

Volvo Tundra



Volvo Tundra was a concept car built and designed by Bertone in 1979. It was based on the Volvo 343, but was rejected. It is easy to spot the design similarities.

All interesting stuff. I do consider the BX a Citroen but agree; unlike the DS, GS, CX, SM it cannot claim to be pure bred. But the spirit of Andre was still very much alive in this latter offspring. As for the XM this was commissioned by and for Citroen. Adhering to established Citroen principles. The XM - if anything - is more of a Citroen than the BX

[jonathan_dyane]

I'm 'kind of' back, having been without internet for some time, although am only back by virtue of smartphone, so the small screen and baby keyboard preclude too much interneting.

For a long time I was suspicious of the XM, and although I liked the look of them, didn't really see the appeal. That was until I rode in one, and it took about 5 minutes to decide I had to have one!

It is true that in many ways the CX beats the XM, most notably steering and front suspension, but alas the CX suffers a dreadful ventilation system, and loves to rust. As an overall package, the XM is, for me, perfection. Durable design (generally) fabulous looks, brilliant comfort (for my frame, superior to the CX) and outstanding practicality (I've just moves flat, which the XM was a great help with, and far more use than a CX saloon. And of course the (controversial) joy of diesel automatic!

If I had the space and a flat arch S1 CX came up, I'd have it in a flash, but for me, XM is best.

[zaphod]

Let's get it right - the BX is an Anadol/Reliant design, briefly used by Volvo for a concept car and eventually being sold to Citroen. It is as Citroen as the MGF is a Rover (See the Honda Beat history)