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Re: A conversion...

Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:37 pm
by xantia_v6
Ah... I thought that you were fitting an ML5T box? I think that most larger engined XM manual transmission driveshafts will fit.

Re: A conversion...

Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:21 pm
by Dean
All i know is driveshafts are gearbox not engine specific, the chances of the manual diff being in exactly the same place with exactly the same size shaft are fairly remote i would think but its just a guess.

D

Re: A conversion...

Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:41 pm
by xmexclusive
Pug is a 29 tooth Bosch ABS ring.
XM is a 48 tooth Teves ABS ring.

John

Re: A conversion...

Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:45 pm
by Dean
You can just pop the outer CV off the pug shaft and fit the XM ones then.

D

Re: A conversion...

Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:32 am
by Dieselman
Dean wrote:All i know is driveshafts are gearbox not engine specific, the chances of the manual diff being in exactly the same place with exactly the same size shaft are fairly remote i would think but its just a guess.

D
I would think that gearboxes are designed to have the same connection points. Car manufacturers always attempt to reduce cost by using already available components.

Re: A conversion...

Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:56 am
by citroenxm
Hopefully we will get as far enough forward wednesday to find out.. lack of a crank seal stopped progress yesterday.. which i now have before the flywheel and clutch go on...

Re: A conversion...

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:10 pm
by citroenxm
A bit of progress and sadly a bit of set backs today..

We swapped the crank seal.. that went well... we then fitted the flywheel.. that went fine... we got the new thermo stat in while the box was off which is a good idea.. as all this needs to come away to fit the thermostat

Image

So that went well.. then clutch on.. that went fine.. so we had a look at drive shafts.. the o/s drivers one was not bad.. the Auto outer shaft from the hub to the bottom mount actuall fitted into the manual half shaft to gearbox end... so that work out fine..

Image

Cv joint splines differ between pug and cit but main shaft diamiter same size...

This worked well for the passenger shaft.. as the manual and auto shafts were the same length.. but abs teeth differed so.. amazingly the cv joint swapped across perfectly..

Image

Thats the passenger shaft ready.. so.. it was in with engine and box and this is where it started showing differences.. once i got the engine top and bottom mounts matched up with the engine i turned to the gearbox end.. and this is where it went wrong..

The peugeot mount that was on the box left the mount sitting too far forward to matching bolt points on the chassis.. so i grabbed a xantia hdi 110 mount.. this left me with this....

Image

The mount plate to rubber mount is as far adjusted as i can.. im millimeters away.. so.. there must be a unique mount for the V6 .. the 2.5td mount doesnt help matters either... now that the box is in my second problem showed up. 2.5 TD gear change cables are also not compatable either and wont work.. i need to try some xantia ones..

So.. time to pop on to service citroen and see what oart numbers are used where...

Re: A conversion...

Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:00 pm
by citroenxm
Progress.. a bit further!

I finally came to the conclusion that the V6 uses a unique gearbox SPIGOT mount... but the same 2.5 TD chassis leg mount and cradle. The V6 gear cables are also unique to the V6 too.. as I found a set of cables once on the car would not fit correctly at all. So, we had to now source the gearbox mount spigot and gear cables, which we did eventually and arrived from Ooooo wow, urrm switzerland ... so, mount fitted, cables and remote control house fitted which incidentally LHD and RHD control boxs are identical on cable change cars and not cranked lh or rh like rod change cars.
20170602_150626.jpg
20170602_150654.jpg
As you can see they are identical. Ones a LHD v6 one the other a 2.5 td rhd one..

So. Fotted the control house.. went to fit the cables despite being for a v6 box and gear select cable forward back cable was fine but neutral cable was not. When in place the lever was hard against drivers side of the control house. After a bit of further faffing i found neutral cable was too long. However sorting it wasnt too bad. I removed the pop on end as it was a removable screw and and with a tap made another 10mm of extra threads down the cable end at the gearbox end. I then cut off 5 mm and refitted the pop on end.. this moved the lever over. Result.. yes we can now get all 5 gears and reverse!

The next issue was clutch. Ive strangly got zero resistance. The release bearing is in place. However the system is "supposed" to be sealed. However.. nothing is sealed for life. They had to make it in the first place. But issue one is im alone when working and issue two is theres no bleed nipple. So.. after some thought i then decided how about a reverse bleed. I got at the resoviour under the dash and removed the dust rubber sheild from the unit. It was empty.. then under the bonnet at the gear box as shown here..
20170704_174354.jpg
Remove the small roll pin and the pipe end comes out.. watch for the seal. What i then did with a syrynge was back fill the line 20ml a time.. untill it filled the resoviour in the car. Then filled the slave cylinder (i removed it from the box) and then wet fitted the line to the cylinder and pressed the pin back in.. result? Yes half pedal resistance. So i think theres still some air in it. So ill do the same again next time. empty the reserve and back inject the line further.

As for drive shafts. The xm auto cv joints fitted the peugeot shafts. Inner auto shafts couldnt be used as the splines were completely different and sealless as the autobox was dry diff. The drivers one fitted perfectly but untill the car is sitting square on all fours the passenger shaft once screwed correctly into the hub might be slightly smigging short in the inner tripod house. The tripod felt very close to the edge of the house but im hoping its only because the fronts up and the struts are hanging down max length.

So progress is making but slow amoungst all things going on here

Re: A conversion...

Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:32 pm
by Dieselman
That doesn't make sense that there is no method of bleeding the CSC, they must have done so at the factory. I know htey reverse fill, but still need to get fluid into there.

Re: A conversion...

Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 10:52 pm
by xmexclusive
On the 2.5 RHD hydraulic clutch drive there is a mid point sealed connector.

This contains two opposing pistons so that top and bottom hydraulic sections seal when parted.
Seal should not be opened more than 4 times
The resovoir only serves the top half.
The bottom section is a factory sealed unit.
If it leaks or has been open too often it must be replaced with new which is supplied as a kit of both parts.
Citroen caution against mixing sets.
One of my 2.5 cars came my way cheap because modifying and refilling this hydraulic line failed to achieve a fully working clutch.
That was with the resovoir eventually moved above the dash.
I finally solved its problems by fitting a matched 2.5 set recovered from one of my scrappers.

John